Make Debts !

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2013/04/we-wish.html

Re: The Party is Over for Banks and the "Paper Economy"

by nameta9 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:52 am

Amorphos wrote:Just want to run an idea past you...

Infinite banking, the ultimate socialism

As in a decade or so nothing will have value apart from the electricity and 'feed' a 3D printer uses, and power itself may become ‘free’, essentially the cardinality will be stripped out of the whole thing.
By infinite i mean ‘unlimited’ not a denumerable or otherwise very big amount ~ that’s still finite.

You mean infinite debt: debt does not ever have to be paid back, you just pay back debt with new debt, you pay back the old debt by making new debts and so on forever since in reality it will never have to be paid back. Actually what you really need is constant cash flow, cash coming in and going out, the more the better, the more confusing the better (the more intractable the better and then you can play all kinds of accounting games on the numbers and make up all kinds of things, actually the goal is to completely lose track of money, how much it is whether you are in profit or loss, the more mixed up and confusing the better and so on, the financial markets, the paper economy, the make believe economy and such) : just like the "huge" JAPANESE debts or Italian debts, they have all of these debts and yet their economies chug along fine for decades on end, they always find someone who will always buy their debts no matter what. So it will never really have to be paid back, it just gets rolled over forever. And especially these debts are so intractable along with the 10 trillion dollars of US debt, no one knows where it is, what is going on and so forth.

And also notice how small chunks of these debts of varying time spans (10 year notes, 2 year bonds and so forth) are being constantly sold, all having different interest rates, so when one debt expires new ones have been made to pay them off and so forth.

The game is perfect, perfectly rigged, will work forever, this is why JHK ( http://kunstler.com/blog/2013/04/aftershocks.html ) has always been 100 % wrong on the financial and bank economy: it will go on forever, no matter what, it is a perfect machine and you can make debts forever, no amount of money is the limit since it will never really have to be paid back. This is the little dirty secret of all of the financial crap.

The reason why governments and economies can make debts forever is because the Technological Economy generates huge amounts of free wealth automatically (along with huge profits, ask Apple or Exxon etc.) , wealth and production is no longer tied into labor or work anymore, wealth today is created through huge economies of scale, large scale networks, transportation, energy networks (and energy will never run out, we have a glut of energy and solar energy is an infinite source of energy, etc.), information, automation, computers, software, mechanized argiculture, technologies and so forth.

And the world is awash with cash, there is 100 trillion dollars in banks just sitting there and not knowing what to do, you will always find money that will buy any debts no matter what.

Every now and then they have to make believe that "debts" is real and serious so they choose a little irrelevant and weak country, just like bullies and decide to punish them: Greece and Cirpo for example, little weaklings that you can beat up in the name of a false moralistic imaginary model of an economy that doesn't exist and is just made up.

Green Movement Demystified

Green Movement Demystified

The Green - "Tree Hugger" - Environmental protectionism movements and followers are essentially mostly old, utopian, "spoiled brats" who have had theirs, who have lived the "life" who have lived through consumerism, the best periods of economic growth, who have bought all the new cars they wanted, all their color TVs, their McMansions or "new homes" (that have increased constantly in value over the years, but more on this mechanism later) and so forth and so on, the best times of improving lives, technology applied to all things economical and so forth, and now they want to stop it, they have had theirs (they are satisfied, have stuffed themselves more than enough with the good life, now they are tired and need a change, an ethically and morally inspired change) and they don't want no one else to have theirs, neither the emerging economies nor the young generation.

They don't notice or see themselves as egotists, they can't see through their huge bias, they can't see through their huge desire to protect their own and to not let anyone else go forward.

They start off trying to convince everyone worldwide that "Nuclear Energy" is the "devil", is "bad", is "evil", will kill us all, that an atomic energy plant is like atomic bombs and such. They have this totally irrational and absurd desire to kill the cleanest, most truely environmentally friendly and efficient energy that we have available. No pollution, an extremely efficient cycle to produce energy, very small problems regarding Nuclear Waste, that is just an excuse to make the energy cost more and more, to complicate things to create as many roadblocks as possible against Nuclear Energy. And why ? because if nuclear energy became as widespread as it should be, all the energy problems of the world would be resolved once and for all, there would no longer be the excuse of Peak Oil, Pollution, global warming and so forth, all the guilt complexes that the greens like to feed (especially in the terms of making the poor or emerging economies or the new young generation that won't have any future anymore feel guilty about how much they will damage "Nature" and such (what do the greens care, they had their party, they have had theirs, they are mostly all well off, notice the social class they all belong to, upper / middle upper class)).

And then they continue ranting about sprawl and new buildings, they are the most opposed possible to building new buildings, offices, skyscrapers, but especially new homes: they truly hate the idea of societies building new homes, "killing nature" and such. And why is this ? because they all have their own homes, they are all owners of homes, they could care less about how much a homes costs in terms of rents or buying for a new young couple or for the new generation or for the emerging economies, they truly want to stop all possible building imaginable. But there is a real solid, economical reason behind this: they want to protect theirs, especially their own home values, they will do anything to keep the prices of their own homes as high as possible, rents as high as possible and in the meantime stop all and any building of new homes to protect what they have, what they got and accumulated during the good times: they had theirs, they want to maintain and protect their status quo, they want to crystallize the money they accumulated when high paying jobs were available in the high home values their homes have creating a barrier and wall for the new generation to ever rent or own a home. But they hide this (and they hide this even to themselves) by using the excuse that they want "to protect nature", they want to protect the "future generations" and so on. They are hypocrits, egotists who want to keep theirs and not give anything to the future generations or anyone who didn't get theirs when the going was good.

And so it is when they rant and try to do everything against new subdivisions in suburbs, new highways and roads, new Malls (since they have the money to buy things in small boutiques and such), against the automobile, against TV and so on, against industry - Malls - consumption - new cars and houses, etc., always against all and anything that can create jobs and a future to those who still don't have a future.

But they don't notice this, they can't see how class based their ideology is, they are oblivious to what their choices imply economically and socially: they imply no future economic growth, high home prices, stagnation, no future jobs or development, no new projects, only the ever higher protection of the status quo of old spoiled brats who have had theirs and don't want to give anything to anyone else anymore, Nature is always "way more important", people are "crap" especially their obsession of the imaginary worldwide "population explosion", another subtle class position that really means: get out, I don't want other people, I want to protect mine and keep mine, everyone else get lost, you are all too many people, "nature must be protected" (you mean the value of your own home "must be protected" don't you, only you don't notice this).

And in Europe and other countries this green movement is even more class based and even worse: they are even more oblivious to what this movement implies. Try asking any green how the high home prices or rents problem can be solved, see what they answer. They will not even know what to answer since they never thought about it, they could care less, it is a false problem for them since they all live comfortably in their own home and such. God forbid you suggest building more homes, they would jump on you.

And these old boomers, mostly the 50 to 70 years old old hags that have learned to "love nature" and "protect nature" have reached what they think is some kind of advanced ideological and political opinion: they are special, they care about the environment, all other people are killing nature and such. They have their pets and dogs, they have their jogging, all old hags thinking that they are good, ethically and morally good and feel good about themselves. But also many of the younger generation have been brainwashed by these relics of the hippy generation, these spoiled brats ever and always against "Development", "Industry", "Plastic" (as in the old song "Plastic People" and such).

But so it is, especially when they concentrate on morality, who is bad, who is to punish, who is robbing money, all of JHK's attention to finding who is guilty of the financial rackets and all: this stuff is totally irrelevant, the morality police is useless in the larger scheme of things, we need development and projects and buildings and low costs for homes and rents, consumerism and so forth, who cares who robbed what, people will always rob money, will always fool others, there will always be corruption, this is a useless non issue, it only serves to distract everyone from the much more simpler choices that are needed: namely we need to build millions of homes so the prices go way down, we need thousands of new projects like high speed trains, space exploration, nuclear energy and so forth, a never ending list of projects, of future, of hope, of constructions, we no longer need these old spoiled brats, these whiners always against everything, these old hippies dreaming of some utopia (since they always came from rich families) and so on.

And notice how politics is really very simple, is really and should be a very simple yes and no answer to all issues (when in reality politics becomes a never ending struggle and debate and mind games and such): do you want the new Malls here ? yes or no, end of story. Do you want the new subdivision here ? yes or no end of story, no need for endless debates and theories and studies and so on, but this is because our mind and thought is excess capacity compared to the really simple problems we have to solve, and also how would all those politicians and reporters and opinionists and economist and so forth and so on pass 8 hours a day working and debating if everything became as simple as it really should be ?

The Party is Over for Banks and the "Paper Economy"

The Party is Over for Banks and the "Paper Economy"

 

by nameta9 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:50 pm 

The Party is Over for Banks and the "Paper Economy"


AZT New York - 4/13/2013 : The governments of the United States, Japan and the European Union along with the US National Security Agency, the Pentagon and the CIA along with other international similar organizations have decided to deploy a stealth - hidden change of economic policy: namely the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the Bank of JAPAN and the Federal Reserve will, from now on, no longer give their printed money to financial institutions but will deploy this money directly to large scale global projects intended to "Spark Growth" and economic development across the world. The central banks have been printing and giving trillions of dollars to financial institutions worldwide with the hope that this could spark economic growth and employment with no avail. The only real possibility is to directly finance and deploy large scale projects that can start employing some of the millions of unemployed and create a positive feedback loop where the projects themselves start to create more demand and need and so forth initiating a real economic growth cycle.

Many large scale, global projects will be deployed aimed specifically at creating the real conditions for future growth and well being for millions of people especially in the recession racked and stagnating economies of Southern European, Japan and parts of the USA. These projects include a massive worldwide home building plan to build millions of new homes in all of the major metropolitan areas worldwide so as to dramatically decrease housing costs for million of people that up until now could neither rent or buy a home given the very high prices compared to their going salaries: so these homes should be in the range of of 100 square meters (3 bedroom homes or apartments) costing about 150 to 200 dollars a month rent (or mortgage) or a price point of about 50,000 dollars.

Amongst the many projects are included a large scale construction of many new high speed train lines across all continents, a large scale public (or private public) BUS system so as to dramatically improve public transportation worldwide along with many new commuter rail lines (especially in the USA). Other projects include a new wide roads consumer oriented infrastructure plan for Europe and Japan, a "sprawl like" infrastructure project to create wide roads and highways since most countries outside of the USA have a hard time consuming as much as the USA given their tight roads, small homes, few shopping Malls etc. and given the fact that highways and many Mall like shopping centers especially in Germany and Japan and Southern Europe are badly needed to kick start a solid new cycle of consumption and growth. A plan to "suburbanize" as many countries as possible as only through large, wide roads and even single family home type configurations can countries achieve the high growth and consumption the worldwide economy really needs.

Other projects include new space exploration projects, worldwide space projects intended to land a man on mars by the year 2020. President Obama has declared recently that NASA alone intends to land a Man on Mars by the year 2020, so this means a lot of new financing and projects for rockets and space technology and so forth. Other projects include new energy networks using Solar Energy and Wind Energy along with a new plan for Nuclear Energy: Nuclear energy is needed so there will be many projects aimed at building many new Nuclear Energy Plants using the latest generations of technology. Other projects are the construction of thousands of new skyscrapers in all of the major metropolitan areas, many new automobile factories, new factories for all kinds of consumer products and so forth, in all areas worldwide and such.

Also, amongst the major projects that shall be deployed is the intention for the governments and public private organizations to hire millions of young and unemployed people mostly in fake jobs type of positions, civil servants type of positions, many people will be hired mostly with the aim of providing them with a salary: this will eventually be phased out and they will simply receive a salary even if they do not work. This is the only way to give a living salary to millions of people who are structurally redundant simply because modern technological economies need fewer and fewer workers automatically.

This plan has been concluded after a few years of studies conducted by many independent groups to come up with a solution to the present and future "Economic Crisis" problem. This is the result of a large worldwide study conducted by all major universities and think tanks of all political colors, by MIT, Harvard, Stanford, NASA, the CIA and other universities worldwide and so forth.

This hidden agenda of governments and security agencies has been approved and has been accepted as the only real possible way to avoid mass poverty, turmoil, conflicts and the real danger of nuclear conflicts, political instability and so forth brought forward by a huge contradiction operating in modern economies: there is no way to distribute wealth anymore since even the "old fashioned" circuit of employed work no longer is functioning since technological economies will need fewer and fewer workers and hence can even pay them less and less.

The "Invisible Hand of the Market" can no longer work in a 21st century world, the only way to create future growth and wealth is by huge planet sized projects, by directly financing them through trillions of dollars (printed by central banks), and financing these and many thousands of other projects. All of the central banks now agree that throwing money at paper and banks and financial institutions will never achieve anything.

All of the above projects will start being deployed, engineered and designed from the First of June 2013 on.

Godel ...

From:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=182433

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem involves a system's, such as mathematics, inability to prove itself by utilizing only itself.

For any such system, there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. The second incompleteness theorem, an extension of the first, shows that such a system cannot demonstrate its own consistency.

The issue is that any logical proof of an axiom will necessarily lead to another which will always merely lead to another endlessly, and thus never complete any absolute proof.

The resolve to this, which was either ignored or merely not realized by those involved in its promotion, is the concern of definitions. Within mathematics, are statements such as "1+1=2". But how does one prove that 1+1 really does equal 2? Using only mathematics leads to more complex equalities that eventually lead to the proof that 1+1=2. But every one of those depends upon an axiom of some kind presumed to be true. Logic always begins with something presumed to be true such as to deduce what else must be true.

But there is a difference between a common axiom and a definitional axiom. A typical axiom is merely something that most, if not all, people would accept as true. But a definitional axiom is something that is declared to be true throughout the system involved, such as, "2 ≡ 1+1".

A declared definition for a system cannot be contended with and is not susceptible to truth statement doubts. The definition is a conditional agreement for utilizing the system at all. If the definition is not accepted then the entire system is not accepted. Every system of any nature involved in thought depends on defined concepts that might or might not have been explicated. Any logical proof that leads back to a defined conceptual truth is necessarily true, without exception.

The issue then becomes one of arbitrary definitions and the rationality of the system being proposed. In the case of mathematics, the definitions are hardly arbitrary (being based on simple quantitative counting) and the rationality (meaning the usefulness) has been extremely demonstrated as useful.

Mathematics, whether realized by its proponents or not, is actually based upon Definitional Logic and thus is incontrovertibly true as a system and due to extremely numerous examples, has been empirically demonstrated to be rational.

Anyone contending with mathematics is contending with rationality... and visa-versa.

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Ape Cock Replies:

No, what Godel thinks he discovers, what I think he means and what I think all this stuff leads to is only one: any system of relationships, any set of Information Relationships, of Reciprocal Relationships and Interactions, any Action - Reaction Set, any system that is essentially talking to itself, that is interacting with itself (exactly like humanity, or a Man Brain or an Observer with the imagined "external" universe) will never be able to ground this system absolutely, definitely, will never be able to find and observe and declare its ultimate fundament: and this is simply because there is no fundament, the system is arbitrary from the outset, the system is a quirk and random and arbitrarily designed or configured system from the outset, not based on anything at all, no matter how hard you try to find some absolute necessity for it to be in the only way it is, no matter how hard you try to find the "God" behind it, no matter what, it is a completely random arbitrary fluke with no deeper necessity to being the way it is than anything else, than any random combination of rocks and sticks you find on any random street on the earth.

And in essense the very laws of physics, the set of the laws of physics themselves (and the corollary laws of logic, identity, non contradiction), taken as a set of reciprocal necessities and forced interactions, is, when seen from outside of themselves, completely arbitrary, a complete fluke, could have been any other laws at all, have non intrinsic necessity for they being the way they are except for they being as they are by pure random, blind chance.

In essence, you would have to be on the outside of the universe looking in, you would have to be such a generalized "Observer" to contain all possible Observer designs and all possible universes to be able to find what they all have in "common", you would have to be a super Observer outside of this or any universe able to see it all and find the common denominator and such: obviously impossible as even with the way our Man Brain is configured (only one possible design amongst 10^10000) and so on ) can only see very little and such: and such a plan falls apart as soon as you consider Observers and Universes (or both together) that don't follow any logic at all or any random logic where contradictions are ok, identity is iffy and so forth....

And so it is with the Man Brain, with our own structure as an Observer, as Natural Evolution evolved us, we are totally arbitrary, a totally arbitrary Action - Reaction Set, Reciprocal Information Relationship Set, a totally arbitrary, random fluke Reciprocal Action Reaction Set as to how an arbitrary Observer interacts with an arbitrarily delimited outside world.

Of course, as usual, I declare "All Contradictions are Operating" when I talk about this stuff, as it all leads to contradictions, as no logic can ever contain it all without falling apart somewhere...

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Saint Says:

Just in order to claim that, you have to assume that YOUR "system" or mind frame is capable of being "outside the system" that is your own mind.

If you want to get into what is or isn't "real" (which isn't what he was talking about), you know the real simply by what has affect. Nothing else matters.


==================================================================

Ape Head Replies:

That is why I said "All Contradictions Are Operating". Whatever. Once you establish definitions and rules of engagements, etc. you do create a kind of local absolute reference system, you create a kind of closed system. But you cannot prove the system from within the system, the system can only "talk to itself" so to say, but can't "get out of itself to prove itself". Godel discovered this but couldn't figure out what he really discovered: in fact no one still really understands that this is the real message of all the Godel stuff and such, I am the only one who has really understood the consequences of his work.

If I define "AWHEHDD" as a truth statement and invent another "$HTHTRRR" as a truth statement and say the second demonstrates the first (or any other kind of relationship I want), the definitions themselves create the proof, but the proof is only valid in this local universe with these two statements and me hardwiring them to be the way they are. It also implies that the entire universe and all of the universe consists of only these two statements, there is nothing outside of them. But Godel wanted to show that the startements were sufficient and hardwired the truth even considering what is outside: obviously this is not possible because you have trillions of things "Outside" of those two statements.

You say:

"being based on simple quantitative counting"

Counting is just one possible algorithm, and in fact truths don't even have to be algorithms: take a memory chip with 6 input bits and 4 (or 5 or whatever) output bits and you can program the contents of the memory to express the function of addition between the first 3 input bits and the second 3 input bits (you divide the bits arbitrarily as being 2 sets of 3 bits instead of one set of 6 bits, you delimit them arbitrarily, this is an example of "delimitations") giving you the addition result as the 4 bit output (but the addition is just the memory content the 6 bits address in reality). But you can decide to program the memory to express the function of multiplication between these of two sets: a 3 bit by 3 bit multiplier giving you the 4 bit output result (notice the old TTL 9344 4 bit by 2 bit multiplier is just a form of compression of the function into fewer gates, if you can't compress a function into fewer gates just use brute froce and write down the function you want by programming a memory etc.).

But an interesting thing happens with this memory: you can invent any new operator, like XZX and program the memory in such a way so as to express a new arbitrary and random function by associating the 3 bit XZX 3 bit giving you the 4 bit output according to the values written in the memory. But this new function is not addition or multiplication but some other new abstract function that may have some meaning for a new kind of Observer used to dealing with a world where this function makes snese and is natural just as our addition or multiplication is in ours. Now you can program the memory in 16^64 different ways (all of the possible combinations of the 64 4 bit value outputs: or like just one long number made up of 64 digits each having 16 values), each one expressing a new mathematical function valid for some Observer. Those are more than 10^76 different new functions. But for each of those Observers, he only deals with and uses a few of those trillions upon trillions of possibilities and can create a closed coherent and logically proved world within his universe: but he will never be able to prove it completely as he can't observe and use all of the other possibilities, hence functions and such.

Anyways, this is what the problem is ...

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Saint Says:

 It seems that you are saying that a system cannot claim to know actual truth and yet you ARE a system claiming to know the actual truth of that claim.